Excerpts from: Unknown But Known
Sitting with Arthur Ford, March 18, 1965, 3:30 P.M.
Present: Mr. Sun Myung Moon, for whom the sitting was held; Col. Bo Hi Pak, former attaché of the Korean Embassy; Miss Kim, interpreter for Sun Myung Moon, Mr. Walter Voelker, the Rev. W. V. Rauscher, the Rev. Robert Lewis, and a group of Mr. Moon's friends from Korea, Japan, the United States, and other places.
Arthur Ford: I studied with Yogananda. He used the word "detachment," which means we completely detach from the objective. There's a larger mind. You never know what will happen. What happens, happens because of the people who are here.
When Fletcher comes, I am totally unconscious. That proves its complete detachment. I can't remember anything. It isn't merely hypnosis. Fletcher is using words through me, using my voice. Naturally, they don't use words over there. Words are physical sounds. He has to interpret thoughts and ideas, that sort of thing, and put them into words. And, of course, it's as St. Paul says, when he went up into the Third Heaven, he saw things and heard things which are unutterable. It's something you feel.
When Fletcher comes, we'll do the best we can. You can ask any questions you want, he'll tell you who's there. He will establish identities.
I haven't used this handkerchief since you were here before.
Col. Pak: I remember that handkerchief.
Arthur Ford: I do this, because its easier to go to sleep.
(At this point Arthur Ford went into trance.)
Fletcher: It is not easy for me to get down to the level of Ford. Great power in the form of light -- if you were to see the light that surrounds you -- most of you would be blinded by it. I am conscious that there are people here who are spiritually more advanced than some here and certainly more advanced than I am, though I have been here nearly fifty years. Time does not guarantee spirituality, nor does it necessarily suggest growth.
In another setting I would insist that my instrument and the rest of you should take off your shoes. But spiritually you can create the humility that will enable you to know that you are in the presence of Truth -- Incarnate and Discarnate.
I am surrounded by people who are not the kind of people I usually interpret for. A man who is here speaks -- he says he is grateful for the opportunity -- he has something, somehow, to do with some of you. He gives the name of Kousik. It's K. K. -- Kim Kousik. He shows me a paper which seems to bear his name. I read his name. I see the man. The paper I cannot read . . .
It seems to me that there is one man here who was here before. Your name is Colonel or something. You , know who Kousik is?
Col. Pak: Yes, Kim Kousik was one of the political statesman in Korea.
Fletcher: He shows me a document which seems to have significance as if his name were on it. He says he regrets very much that Lee Wan Tong is not with you. Tong Wan Lee. Do you know who that is?
Col. Pak: Foreign Minister of Korean Government.
Fletcher: You have seen him lately?
Col. Pak: Yes, I saw him two days ago.
Fletcher: Tell him that be did well to come here. . . . This is the end of an age, and the battle that is raging is really Armageddon. It's a battle between the selfish, brutal men who do not think in terms of God or things which are associated with that word -- against those peoples who will be the harbingers of the New Age. You are now in the new Age -- and old things are being destroyed -- and new things -- which are eternal but which are new only because mankind has now reached the point where it is able to recognize them and use them.
And some of you in this room, some of you who come from other lands and some of you who are native to this land belong in the vanguard of the New Age. And there is a gentleman in the room who is one of those who will be used for the restoration of spiritual principles and truths which are eternal, but which have been lost because of the stupidity and the greed of men. You can safely follow him, because nothing that is in the universe that is real is ever destroyed -- it changes form.
But there are many things in the minds and consciousness of men which are distortions of Truth and approximations of Truth and they are many times superstitions which have been grafted upon Truth. They do not destroy, but they present Truth in such a manner that it does not have significance or meaning to the people who are looking for salvation -- which means only a restoration of the eternal affinity between the Creator and his creations. I don't know what they're talking about, but that's what he says.
Col. Pak: Could you ask him in connection with the New Age, more specifically, the mission of Our Leader here today?
Fletcher: He is one of those who will be the human instrument through whom the World Teacher will be able to speak. And he was chosen because the New Age can be ushered in only through the eastern gate of the City of God -- and that gate has been sealed since Jesus was crucified. It cannot be opened until the New Age in which you are now entering and which you are in. When the teacher comes there would be a people ready for him.
The Jesus of Galilee will not return -- it is not necessary. The Christ who manifested through him is the Eternal -- he will manifest again. He has never ceased to speak to men but the time has come when, in the New Age, the veil which has been drawn between your plane and the World of Spirit will be pushed aside and those who have been freed from physical bondage will be able to speak and use and guide and teach the peoples of earth. That is being brought into manifestation everywhere.
But the important thing to remember is that when God wants to make a revelation (he has always done so and always will) he has to choose a human instrument, who, through some circumstances or conditions, has been brought to the point of sensitiveness and spiritual perception so that he can, in his own person, accept this ancient light of wisdom -- and through him it will filter down to others, probably no less dedicated, but in truth, less gifted.
It is like a pyramid. At the peak stands the Teacher, the Leader, the Chosen One and under him, gradually there begins to build a foundation. The truth flows, down, and as it flows down it flows outward until it touches every comer of the earth. But it always starts with one man -- and others are touched.
The Holy Spirit has not been quiet -- and he has not been inactive. But there come periodically in the history of the race moments when the Holy Spirit has to individualize almost completely in some person -- who becomes the instrument who will enable others to catch the Spirit and see the Spirit, and know the Spirit. And so they go in all directions, never separated from the source, but always individualized. . . .
Sun Myung Moon is the one I have been talking about. I have been speaking for a group of people here. This group seems to surround him. And the power that flows through him, the intelligence, is not just one -- it is a great group of people. And they seem all to draw their inspiration and their knowledge from One Source -- and then they seem to pour it symbolically into a pool and in some strange symbolical way that pool becomes Sun Myung Moon.
As if All Experience -- All Knowledge -- All Spiritual Truth has always existed. It has been revealed at different times -- through different people. But the one who reveals is concerned only that he speaks Truth and those who are ready and capable of accepting Truth or perceiving Truth they carry the message on. The revelators seldom live to see their revelations widely accepted. But they do always draw to them -- and leave behind them -- a group who continue the revelation.
Walter Voelker: May I ask a question, Fletcher? For persons like me, familiar with the teachings of Jesus and to whom the Divine Principles seem strange, can anyone tell the relationship between the "teachings of Jesus" and the "messages of Sun Myung Moon" so that I will not be confused?
Fletcher: I will have to speak for the people here. Truth never contradicts itself. Quite often what you call the teachings of Jesus may be -- they often are -- interpretations which men have made, and about which men have builded institutions. You cannot, in your age, rely upon any ancient formula or any ancient definitions of God or man. The other religions develop dogmas and doctrines about both man and God. And when they declared them, science challenged them -- and then chaos, confusion, set in.
In the age in which you are living, all the debris that has accumulated around Truth must be brushed aside , for all Truths become loaded with ideas, organizations, which grow up in the heart of devout people, but which have no relation really to the Truth itself. And so today you live in a time when men know a great many facts, but they haven't learned how to identify these facts -- this data -- with ideals. And a scientific knowledge without philosophical reflection can result in emptiness. And that is what you face.
You cannot limit God. And you cannot limit the possibilities of man, because man has within him individualized part of the God, of the Infinite. But if you try to build a life, a philosophy, or a religion only on those facts which you are able to perceive through your senses -- and if you rely only upon sensory perception and experience, you will not find the Truth.
Scientific facts are important, but in themselves they tell you nothing. Scientific facts become meaningful only when they are used against a vast background of ideas and ideals. Therefore, what I am saying is that the Basic Truths are that God is and that man is his creation -- and being God's creation began as a perfect being but through environmental conditions and through ignorance and -- sometimes because of instinctual promptings which overpowered his divinity -- man has lost that perfection which he bad as a creature of God. And man himself has created a dual universe.
There was no Evil in God's creation; there is no Evil in the Mind of God. But man through his own choice -- and because he has yielded to the instinctual urges which are a heritage of his animal ancestry as a physical vehicle -- has created a dual universe. And the purpose of the New Age is to restore that perfection, which can only be realized when man becomes completely God -- centered and then into the social processes brings the qualities of justice and love and brotherhood, which are the attributes of the spiritual concept of God. Then you will demolish a dual universe.
And Satan, which is only the ancient word for Eternal Hatred, will be destroyed -- because where there is love, there can be no hate, and that is what the prophets and Jesus himself prophesied "at the end of the age" not "the end of the world' -- and you have ended that age and are entering now an age in which you will be compelled to subjugate those people who would destroy you. And you will be compelled to end the Battle of Armageddon. But it will be a victory in which all the selfish nationalism, the creeds, the hates that grow out of these things will be ended. It will not be finished in your lifetime, but your lifetime is not limited to this little expression through your physical bodies. You will still be a part of the chosen; you will still be a part of those who will be influencing and guiding and throwing light on the path of those who will build the Kingdom of God on earth.
You must not fall victim to the false idea that there is any such thing as a final truth once and for all delivered. Truth is a living, vibrant thing, because truth stems from God, and there is no conclusion; there is no goal except that ever expanding goal of God. But, in some strange way, the divine economy demands that every so often some man take upon himself a larger share of God and thus become the Voice of Truth. It has always been so and always will be so, and there will always be those who can be used.
God has no voice save the voice that is given to him by people who have risen to the point where they can comprehend and then extend his ideas. . . .
Miss Kim: Do you mean the Christ of 2,000 years ago?
Fletcher: There was no Christ 2,000 years ago there was a man 2,000 years ago through whom the Anointed One was able to manifest. The man died -- Christ lived -- and, as the Holy Spirit, has been helping. You must remember that, when this man said, "I will be with you until the end of the age," it was not the Galilean speaking, it was the Incarnate Christ. . . .
Miss Kim: Will there be many leaders in the New Age?
Fletcher: Even if there is a Christ be bad to choose the twelve, and they, in turn, touched the lives of others. Because the message could not have been given if it had been limited to one man, to one race, to one group. But always, as this man said, it has to start with one man -- and always the revelation is founded upon the truth once revealed, but it is added to, and expressed in terms not of yesterday, but of the future. . . . There must always be someone who can accept the responsibility of passing the truth on.
Col. Pak: You are speaking of New Revelation: that means you are speaking of -- you refer to the Divine Principles brought by Sun Myung Moon?
Fletcher: That's a part of it, yes, but even Sun Myung Moon has not exhausted the possibilities of the Divine Mind. He is, and -- as long as he lives
will continue to be, a channel for revelation. The channel never ceases to flow; the fountain never dries up. . . . Always it will be the Spirit of Truth, who is not limited in any direction by either a group, a man, or anyone else -- he uses one man or he may use a million men, but be is never limited.
The Spirit of Truth, like the sun, will light the whole world.
Miss Kim: Do you know that there should be one true father and mother -- true parents for the New Age?
Fletcher: The Divine Mind or the Concept of God has -- as a creative principle -- God has within himself all the faculties or the qualities of both the male and the female. There can be no creative expression, there can be no life without these two qualities -- the male and the female. So God is neither man nor woman. He sums up within himself all things. . . . There's a man who comes here, and he says that he wishes to speak. He seems to have known some of you. He gives the name of John Gilmer. He says be died in Seoul. Some of you from there? Seoul? John Gilmer, he says he was there and he knew and met some of you there. He was with the United Nations on some kind of an economic survey. And he says he was with Albert Wedemeyer.
Col. Pak: Yes, General Wedemeyer. . . . I knew his name.
Fletcher: He says that be comes because be died just recently, almost within days or hours, in Seoul, this John Gilmer. He says that be wants to tell you that there are in your land great possibilities, and they must be utilized. You must not forget that to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and heal the sick -- all these things are as spiritual as it is to pray or to worship God. And you must translate your spiritual truth into those things which make for justice and for peace and for happiness -- so that men can know God -- because you cannot talk about God to men who are starving unless you present God in the form of bread. You cannot interest men in God if they are naked unless you can clothe them and keep them warm. And a man who is sick because of deprivation and unhappy conditions will not listen about God unless you help to relieve those conditions -- then you have found God in action. . . . And now you enter a New Age -- you have to live through Armageddon -- you have to live through the death struggle of those who seek to perpetuate the old days -- but you will emerge into the Light. . . . There is someone here who's been talking, several, but one who is talking in light, someone who gives the name Kim Koo.
Col. Pak: Yes, a martyred patriot in Korea.
Fletcher: I died that they might find freedom. Our land has never known the freedom even to worship God as our hearts told us to. We were always having foreign religious ideas imposed upon us. Now we have freedom -- and so when that freedom was ours, Sun Myung Moon was used by the Holy Spirit, and is used by the Holy Spirit, and will be used by the Holy Spirit. Translate the things he tells you into activities that lift poverty and hunger and hate.
I can assure you that there will be no war that will destroy Korea or the world -- even Satan is wise enough to know when he must retreat. Error cannot live where the light of truth is to be found.
Walter Voelker: What advice does he have for us?
Fletcher: This man has a message -- this man has no message -- but the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, can speak through Moon more clearly more completely -- than he is able to speak through any one individual today. It may take a long time for his truth to be realized in the hearts of men. But even the Christ had to have his John the Baptist to herald him -- and then, after he came, he had to gather around him a group -- and after his death that group bore witness -- and it's a long time.
There is but one God. There is but one Christ. He may wear different names, because 'men speak different tongues, hut there is but one God, one Christ, one Spirit of Truth. Whenever that Spirit of Truth becomes vocal, you are wise to listen.
Remember to make the distinction between the Spirit of Truth, which is the Christ, and any individual with a human name. That name may become historically associated with the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of Truth didn't begin with any man -- it ends -- with no man -- it uses men. Right now it is using in a very remarkable way the man who is in your presence.
Col. Pak: May I ask you one thing? Our leader, Sun Myung Moon is a prince of the New Age. We feel that he has completed national scale restoration. Now his work is going on in the world on a universal scale. How will the world accept him? In his lifetime how much will the world be changed?
Fletcher: It was Kim Koo, who came because he said "even in effecting political and national and economic freedom we have to use people."
You have reached a point -- the world has reached a point -- where a person can speak in terms of principles. And remember that principles are flexible and are capable of being applied individually. They are adaptable to culture and to wisdom. A principle is the reality behind law. Most of you are no longer spiritually under law. Law is a fixed and sometimes cruel and heartless and ruthless thing. You have grown spiritually to the point where you live on principle, which is the truth behind law. Primitive people still need the law. God is able to make himself understood in terms and in manner that is understood -- and that is adapted to the culture in which it is sprinkled. Strange thing. Does the name Indra mean anything?
Col. Pak: It could be a Korean woman's name.
Fletcher: Whoever this woman is, she says something about some kind of a memorial -- it looks like it's a symbol -- a picture of what will grow and it is no mere accident that it happened in Pusan. A memorial to people of all nations. And that memorial was consecrated and dedicated by representatives of every one of the world religions who came together on the soil of Korea to build a memorial, not to the people of one race -- one religion. And Kim Koo says it is no accident that on the 21st of last August representatives of every race and every religion gathered in Pusan to build some kind of a sacred something which is a symbol of what will grow out and spread over the world and it has something to do with some kind of a memorial. It was established just a few days after this holy 15th of August. What's the 15th of August?
Col. Pak: The 15th of August is the day we celebrate the birth of freedom, the Independence Day of Korea.
Walter Voelker: May I ask a question, Fletcher? Do we have within ourselves a guide that tells us what is God's will? Or do we take in an authoritarian way the opinion or statement of another, such as Sun Myung Moon, without qualifications?
Fletcher: The -- Spirit speaks to spirit and every one of you has within you something -- an individualized part. of that whole which you call God. Truth may flow to everyone, it is not limited to any one man. Always there are illumined souls who can become teachers, guides, and through whom the truth can flow more fully. It did through Christ -- it did through Buddha -- it did through others. But none of these people -- and neither does Mr. Moon himself claim to be God -- he only claims, like Jesus and the others, to be an instrument through whom the Spirit of Truth is able to speak. And when the Spirit of Truth speaks through any man, no matter who it is, listen. When be speaks more fully, listen more carefully. . . .
Miss Kim: Should the Christians all over the world continue to follow Jesus of Nazareth or the Divine Principles?
Fletcher: The Christians all over the world have never followed Jesus of Nazareth as a man they have only followed Christ who was incarnate for a little while in the person of Jesus -- you must make the distinction. It is not going to be possible for anyone to suddenly sweep all the religious peoples of the world into one group. It is a process of education into a part of the world where Christ was not -- known, and where his teachings were presented very poorly by those who claimed to represent him.
It was necessary that Mr. Moon should come.
God had to have some man through whom the Spirit of Truth could speak, because the missionaries were not speaking in the same language -- they were all presenting a different picture. There is but one Spirit of Truth. And so the distortions of men have always made it necessary for someone to become the revelator. . . .
Col. Pak: Could you give me some forecast of our leader's work, the teaching and educational process of this new truth, in the United States?
Fletcher: First of all, be must be willing to listen, to speak, and then have his words translated -- and they will be translated into many languages. But you cannot expect the message to be accepted immediately by vast numbers of people only those who are ready and who are willing to listen and to whom this particular message seems to be right and meaningful. That is the way that all the world teachers have bad to go. And remember one thing only, that if it is of God, it can not fail. And it is of God.
But Mr. Moon is just one in a long line of people who have been used as revelators -- he is not the last -- he is not the first -- but in this hour, he is being used in a great way. And his message will be heard. Does that answer your question?
This is the thing to remember (and with this I must go -- the power is waning) -- this is the thing I would leave with you -- that any man who has the good fortune to find a teacher of truth, and that teacher speaks to his need and to his heart, that man is under a divine compulsion to share his joy and his knowledge, and, if possible, lead others so that each may stand in the presence of his teacher -- and enter into an experience of his own.
But never make the mistake of associating the truth which flows from any man, through any man, of identifying it completely with that man. The Spirit of Truth uses men. It is not a man.
Walter Voelker: Quick question, Fletcher, please. What is my greatest weakness? What is the weakness that you see in other persons like us here?
Fletcher: I see just what we all see here -- a great confusion in the minds of men everywhere because ancient formalism, traditions are being struck down in the light of new knowledge. You have almost reached the point -- world -- wide as men, incarnate men -- where you seem to know everything, understand nothing.
Gather your data, gather your knowledge, listen to your teachers. But remember there's always a vast dimension of spiritual power and truth, and until you are able to become aware of that, all the knowledge, all the facts, all the data mean nothing, because it doesn't cohere. God is the coherent -- the integrative -- the symphonic power in the universe.
You are very fortunate to have a man who can be used so greatly to lift the pall of spiritual darkness. It is no accident that Mr. Moon was chosen because he was born into a part of the world, where at this particular moment, the battle is raging most fiercely. He will be able, through his influence and the people whom he reaches with the message to turn the Battle of Armageddon into victory in the East. I can only repeat the vision of John, that when the New Age comes, the Eastern Gate will open, and not only man -- but Revelation -- will flow out of that gate. I have been speaking for a group of people. Now, there's just one man who says be wants to speak to these young clergymen. He also wants to speak to Col. Pak. Did you attend the war crimes trials?
Col. Pak: Yes, during the war.
Fletcher: There's a man here who says he knows some of the people that know these young clergymen. He says that he was appointed to defend Tojo as a war criminal of Japan. This man says, "I am an American and it is interesting that I used to go to the Episcopal church in Paoli. I was with the Army -- with MacArthur and I was appointed, because I was an advocate, to defend Tojo. I lost the case, and I rather hoped I would I did not care about winning the case." And he said, "Just a little while ago, I was killed by a train in Paoli, recently. My name is George Bluitt. I was in Korea."
And this man, John Gilmer, says, "Things will be better."
Col. Pak: He is speaking to me personally or to the group?
Fletcher: He met you somewhere along the way. He says, "I stood by the side of Charles Joy- General Joy".
Col. Pak: Admiral Joy.
Fletcher: When you are dealing with a man who does not believe in God, then you are dealing with a man capable of any cruelty, because life has no meaning -- there is nothing sacred- there is no truth -- there is only that thing which I want at this moment and which I am willing to get whatever I have to do. This is the kind of person Tojo was -- the kind of person we dealt with on the 38th parallel.
Col. Pak: When he said things will be better -- things are looking better -- was he speaking of our movement?
Fletcher: Your movement and the world generally -- because you are living through the death agony of an old order. It takes time for the New Age to discard the debris, the accumulated stupidities of the order -- they go and they are going.
Col. Pak: One question. Do we have to overcome the greater degree of a kind of persecution or oppression while we are enforcing our spiritual movement in this world?
Fletcher: Every spiritual movement has to meet opposition even from other spiritual movements, because you have to, by your lives, demonstrate that you have something that is superior. No argument will win the victory in a spiritual contest -- except the transformed personality. You have it, sir. Others have it.
Gordon Ross: Will you say when the New Age began? What year?
Fletcher: The New Age moved in gradually -- it has been gradually coming for half a century, but four years ago -- - -- Never make the mistake of saying Christ was born -- Jesus was born in Bethlehem -- Christ the Incarnate One used his body -- he lived before -- and he lives now. I have to go now. Bless you all. Go happily, and go determined to preach your truths in the only way that they will be effective.
Miss Kim: Have you anything to ask for Mr. Moon?
Fletcher: Yes. I ask for him that those who have been blessed by knowing him and whose lives have been made better because of him and the things the Spirit of Truth has been able to speak through him hold up his hands -- shelter him -- and feed him with their love. Give him your whole support -- not because he is Mr. Moon -- but because he is an instrument through whom God is revealing himself more completely than he can through many people. You understand?
Thank you. Now -- goodbye.